Coles Organic Milk

[Elguapo]

I have been purchasing Pauls brand organic milk recently for my 1 year old
daughter who has just switched to cows milk from formula. I have been
looking at the Coles brnaded Organic milk as it is 50 or so cents cheaper a
litre. But I can't bring myself to purchasing it because of one issue that
has me wondering. The Coles brand organic milk always seems to have a used
by date that is 5 to 6 weeks in to the future. For example today I saw some
that was used by 05/01/2007!!! This milk is not labelled long life and is
in a standard fresh milk cardboard style packaging along side all the other
frsh milk in the dairy case. All the other fresh organic milks I have seen,
and non organic for that matter, have dates that never seem to exceed 10 or
so days. Does any one know if the Coles organic milk is acutally fresh or
is it UHT or does it have some sort of "special" additive that makes it keep
longer? If it is UHT I would like to think that some sort of legislation
should make them declare that on the packaging.

[Jen]

Post by Elguapo
I have been purchasing Pauls brand organic milk recently for my 1 year old
daughter who has just switched to cows milk from formula. I have been
looking at the Coles brnaded Organic milk as it is 50 or so cents cheaper a
litre. But I can't bring myself to purchasing it because of one issue that
has me wondering. The Coles brand organic milk always seems to have a used
by date that is 5 to 6 weeks in to the future. For example today I saw
some that was used by 05/01/2007!!! This milk is not labelled long life
and is in a standard fresh milk cardboard style packaging along side all
the other frsh milk in the dairy case. All the other fresh organic milks I
have seen, and non organic for that matter, have dates that never seem to
exceed 10 or so days. Does any one know if the Coles organic milk is
acutally fresh or is it UHT or does it have some sort of "special" additive
that makes it keep longer? If it is UHT I would like to think that some
sort of legislation should make them declare that on the packaging.

What's 'organic milk'? Isn't all milk organic?

Jen

[Leanne]

Post by Jen
What's 'organic milk'? Isn't all milk organic?

the cows would not be subjected to anything no chemicals etc. and probably
only eat organic food.

[Phred]

Post by Leanne

Post by Jen
What's 'organic milk'? Isn't all milk organic?

the cows would not be subjected to anything no chemicals etc. and probably
only eat organic food.

Bet they eat some minerals too, if only in dirt on grass. ;-)

Come to that, there are plenty of minerals *in* grass: Ca, K, Na, P,
S, Se ...

But I must say I am curious about that extended UBD that started the
thread. I wonder if someone has stuffed up the numbering system
wherever that milk comes from? The last lot of "generic" whole milk I
bought (at IGA this evening) has an expiry date of 7 Dec 2006. Even
that is a long time out compared with the days of bottles delivered to
your doorstep! ;-)

Cheers, Phred.

[Elguapo]

Post by Phred

Post by Leanne

Post by Jen
What's 'organic milk'? Isn't all milk organic?

the cows would not be subjected to anything no chemicals etc. and probably
only eat organic food.

Bet they eat some minerals too, if only in dirt on grass. ;-)
Come to that, there are plenty of minerals *in* grass: Ca, K, Na, P,
S, Se ...
But I must say I am curious about that extended UBD that started the
thread. I wonder if someone has stuffed up the numbering system
wherever that milk comes from? The last lot of "generic" whole milk I
bought (at IGA this evening) has an expiry date of 7 Dec 2006. Even
that is a long time out compared with the days of bottles delivered to
your doorstep! ;-)
Cheers, Phred.
--

It definately not a miss print on Coles' part. I have been looking at all
the organic milk options for a few months now and the Coles Organic milk
sold at various stores always has an extremerly long UBD.

I have tried the "snowy mountains organic" milk this week. Seems OK however
it seems the compnay that produces this chooses not to be certified by any
of the certification authorities. I guess in this case the use of the word
organinc is subjective due to the fact that as a consumer you are relying on
their word rather than a certifying authority. I for one would probably
rather pay a few cents more to know the product I buy is randomly audited to
ensure the producer is adhereing to all the principles of organic farming.

[Phred]

[Snip]

Post by Elguapo

Post by Phred
But I must say I am curious about that extended UBD that started the
thread. I wonder if someone has stuffed up the numbering system
wherever that milk comes from? The last lot of "generic" whole milk I
bought (at IGA this evening) has an expiry date of 7 Dec 2006. Even
that is a long time out compared with the days of bottles delivered to
your doorstep! ;-)

It definately not a miss print on Coles' part. I have been looking at all

Well, it wouldn't be on Coles' part, which is why I said "wherever
that milk comes from". Coles would just cop what the supplier said.
(Unless there are complaints from customers; in which case I rather
suspect the supplier would cop it from Coles. :)

Post by Elguapo
the organic milk options for a few months now and the Coles Organic milk
sold at various stores always has an extremerly long UBD.

I was at the local Coles this evening, but as I had enough milk at
home I didn't think to see what the dates were here in the deep north.
(And I usually buy "generic" from IGA at $1.99/L; Coles had a similar
product which I was happy to buy until they upped the price to $2.05.
You've got to make a stand somewhere. ;-)

Post by Elguapo
I have tried the "snowy mountains organic" milk this week. Seems OK however
it seems the compnay that produces this chooses not to be certified by any
of the certification authorities. I guess in this case the use of the word
organinc is subjective due to the fact that as a consumer you are relying on
their word rather than a certifying authority. I for one would probably
rather pay a few cents more to know the product I buy is randomly audited to
ensure the producer is adhereing to all the principles of organic farming.

We have a "biodynamic" dairy up this way (organics taken to absurdity
with cow horns and stuff like that). [Actually, their stuff is pretty
bloody nice -- but it's also pretty bloody expensive!]

<quoting from reference given below>
Mungalli Creek Farmhouse (Bio-dynamic Dairy Farm) 'Out of the
Whey' Café and Cheese factory
Robert & Sally Watson, Mungalli Creek Farmhouse
Millaa Millaa Qld Phone: [phone] Fax: [phone]
Email: ***@bigpond.com.au

Suppliers of the largest range of biodynamic, organic and farm
fresh products in Far North Queensland.

Bio-dynamic/organic range includes milks, creams, havarti, fetta,
blue vein cheese, yoghurt, with indigenous fruit flavours, quark
with indigenous herb flavours.
</quoting>

Reference: <http://www.australiantropicalfoods.com/gourmet.html>

Or go to Mungalli's own page (which wasn't loading when I started
this 8-) <http://www.millaa.com/Mungalli/mungalli.htm> for blurb.
[And if you click on "Contents Page" at the top of that page
then scroll down a bit, you'll find a rather neat picture of a
cassowary glaring at you FWIW. :-) ]

Cheers, Phred.

[DragonLass]

Post by Elguapo
I have been purchasing Pauls brand organic milk recently for my 1 year old
daughter who has just switched to cows milk from formula. I have been
looking at the Coles brnaded Organic milk as it is 50 or so cents cheaper a
litre. But I can't bring myself to purchasing it because of one issue that
has me wondering. The Coles brand organic milk always seems to have a used
by date that is 5 to 6 weeks in to the future. For example today I saw
some that was used by 05/01/2007!!! This milk is not labelled long life
and is in a standard fresh milk cardboard style packaging along side all
the other frsh milk in the dairy case. All the other fresh organic milks I
have seen, and non organic for that matter, have dates that never seem to
exceed 10 or so days. Does any one know if the Coles organic milk is
acutally fresh or is it UHT or does it have some sort of "special" additive
that makes it keep longer? If it is UHT I would like to think that some
sort of legislation should make them declare that on the packaging.

Milk with a use by date of several weeks is 'ultrapasteurised' rather than
simply pasterised in the normal way.
Normal pasteurisation involves heating the milk to a certain temperature for
around 15 seconds, then cooling it.
Ultrapasteurised is heating the milk to an even higher temperature for 2
seconds, and then snap chilling it.

This is done to milks that do not sell as quickly so their shelf life is
extended. It should not taste any different, but some people with very
sharp taste buds think they can detect a slight burning taste.
Also, some reckon that UP milk loses some of its nutrients, though I haven't
seen any research to that effect. Could probably do a bit of googling to
find out.

By the way, organic milk is a crock. In Australia, dairy cows are NOT fed
growth hormones. Almost all cattle are almost exclusively pasture fed (in
contrast to Europe where most of their dairy cattle are housed and grain
fed).
Any possible residual pesticides used around the farm would be a)
infentesimal in volume and b) destroyed by the pasteurisation process.

[Phred]

In article <456c19c3$0$24762$***@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>, "DragonLass" <***@idonthinkso.com> wrote:
[snip]>

Post by DragonLass
By the way, organic milk is a crock. In Australia, dairy cows are NOT fed
growth hormones. Almost all cattle are almost exclusively pasture fed (in
contrast to Europe where most of their dairy cattle are housed and grain
fed).

True -- but only for beef cattle not in feedlots and for *dry* dairy
cows.

I think you'll find that most dairy cows in production in Oz get at
least a daily feed of grain and/or molasses. In the better managed
farms, the amount of feed the individual cows get is related to their
actual milk production. But where's the problem? Grain, hay,
molasses, and similar are all organic after all.

Post by DragonLass
Any possible residual pesticides used around the farm would be a)
infentesimal in volume and b) destroyed by the pasteurisation process.

I doubt that residual organochlorides from The Bad Old Days would be
destroyed by pasteurisation, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.
The good news is that most were phased out years ago and there has
been a lot of effort put into locating and isolating or removing any
remaining trouble spots. The bad news is that cows grazing pasture
growing on contaminated sites are more likely to have detectable
levels than cows just fed on grain etc. from cleaner parts. ;-)

For some info on these nasties you can have a squiz at:

Noble, A. (1990). The relation between organochlorine residues in
animal feeds and residues in tissues, milk and eggs: a review.
Australian Journal of Experimental Agriculture 30(1) 145 - 154.

I thought I had found a link to it at CSIRO, but the bastards are
still trying to *sell* full copies of this ancient paper, so you'll
have to find a hard copy in a library (or fork out to CSIRO :).



Cheers, Phred.

[Chookie]

Post by Phred
I think you'll find that most dairy cows in production in Oz get at
least a daily feed of grain and/or molasses. In the better managed
farms, the amount of feed the individual cows get is related to their
actual milk production. But where's the problem? Grain, hay,
molasses, and similar are all organic after all.

That's organic as in organic compounds, not as in pesticide-free. For true
organic produce, the whole supply chain has to be organic. Apparently a lot
of supposedly "organic" products don't actually meet these standards, anyway.

[Phred]

Post by Chookie

Post by Phred
I think you'll find that most dairy cows in production in Oz get at
least a daily feed of grain and/or molasses. In the better managed
farms, the amount of feed the individual cows get is related to their
actual milk production. But where's the problem? Grain, hay,
molasses, and similar are all organic after all.

That's organic as in organic compounds, not as in pesticide-free. For true
organic produce, the whole supply chain has to be organic.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But the appropriation of a perfectly useful
old term for that modern purpose irritates me profoundly. (And it's
not the only one.)

That's why I tend to be a damn smart arse in this sort of discussion.

Post by Chookie
Apparently a lot of supposedly "organic" products don't actually meet these
standards, anyway.

We cynics are alive and well. :-)

Cheers, Phred.

[Liz]

"Phred" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
<snip>

Post by Phred

Post by Chookie
That's organic as in organic compounds, not as in pesticide-free. For true
organic produce, the whole supply chain has to be organic.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But the appropriation of a perfectly useful
old term for that modern purpose irritates me profoundly. (And it's
not the only one.)
That's why I tend to be a damn smart arse in this sort of discussion.

<snip>

I know the feeling. But on the other hand, making up new words out of bits
of old ones also irritates me in many cases (webinar, anyone?). So I'm not
sure what's the answer.

Liz